What did you think? What suprised you?
Is Mrs. Hawking good or bad or somewhere in between? Loved when Mrs. Hawking said Ben was "probably" lying?
What did you think of that Jack and Kate kiss? It seemed a little, well, desperate.
Line of the night had to be from the returning Frank Lapidus, who said "We're not going to Guam, are we?"
Think he'll turn up on the island?
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John 3:16 -- "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,[a] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."
Does this mean Locke will live once he's on the island?
How do you think Hurley and Sayid found out about the flight?
And what's was with Ben reading Ulysses. This is what wikipedia says about the book: Ulysses chronicles the passage through Dublin by its main character, Leopold Bloom, during an ordinary day, June 16, 1904. The title alludes to Odysseus (Latinised into Ulysses), the hero of Homer's Odyssey, and there are many parallels, both implicit and explicit, between the two works (e.g., the correspondences between Leopold Bloom and Odysseus, Molly Bloom and Penelope, and Stephen Dedalus and Telemachus).
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Ulysses is divided into eighteen chapters or "episodes". At first glance much of the book may appear unstructured and chaotic; Joyce once said that he'd "put in so many enigmas and puzzles that it will keep the professors busy for centuries arguing over what I meant" in order to attain "immortality".[8] The two schemata which Stuart Gilbert and Herbert Gorman released after publication to defend Joyce from the obscenity accusations made the links to the Odyssey clear, and also explained the work's internal structure.
Every episode of Ulysses has an assigned theme, technique and, tellingly, correspondences between its characters and those of the Odyssey. The episode titles and the correspondences were not included in the original text but are known from the Linati and Gilbert schema. Joyce referred to the episodes by their Homeric titles in his letters. He took the titles from Victor Bérard's two-volume Les Phéniciens et l’Odyssée which he consulted in 1918 in the Zentralbibliothek of Zürich. Bérard's book was the source of Joyce's idiosyncratic rendering of some of the Homeric titles: 'Nausikaa', the 'Telemachia'
Which character most represents Thomas the Apostle?
From Wikipedia about Thomas:
Saint Thomas the Apostle, also called Doubting Thomas, or Didymus, was one of the Twelve Apostles of Jesus. He is perhaps best known for disbelieving Jesus' Resurrection when first told of it, then proclaiming "My Lord and my God" on seeing Jesus. He was perhaps the only Apostle who went outside the Roman Empire for preaching Holy Gospel and the one who spanned the largest area, which includes Persia, India (present day Kerala), and China.
Thomas appears in a few passages in the Gospel of John. In John 11:16, when Lazarus has just died, the disciples are resisting Jesus' decision to return to Judea, where the Jews had previously tried to stone Jesus. Jesus is determined, and Thomas says bravely: "Let us also go, that we might die with him."
He also speaks at The Last Supper in John 14:5. Jesus assures his disciples that they know where he is going, but Thomas protests that they don't know at all. Jesus replies to this and to Philip's requests with a detailed exposition of his relationship to God the Father.
Thomas' best known appearance in the New Testament, John 20:24-29, he doubts the resurrection of Jesus and demands to touch Jesus' wounds before being convinced. Caravaggio's painting, The Incredulity of Saint Thomas (illustration above), depicts this scene. This story is the origin of the term Doubting Thomas. After seeing Jesus alive (the Bible never states whether Thomas actually touched Christ's wounds), Thomas professed his faith in Jesus, exclaiming "My Lord and my God!"; on this account he is also called Thomas the Believer.[1]
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According to The Passing of Mary, a text attributed to Joseph of Arimathaea, Thomas was the only witness of the Assumption of Mary into heaven. The other apostles were miraculously transported to Jerusalem to witness her death. Thomas was left in India, but after her burial he was transported to her tomb, where he witnessed her bodily assumption into heaven, from which she dropped her girdle. In an inversion of the story of Thomas' doubts, the other apostles are skeptical of Thomas' story until they see the empty tomb and the girdle.[3] Thomas' receipt of the girdle is commonly depicted in medieval and pre-Tridentine Renaissance art.
So do you think when Ben told Jack he was going to see an old friend that he was going to see Widmore although that wouldn't have been enough time. Would it have been?
Did Ben have something to do with Sayid and Hurley being on the flight? At first I thought maybe Ben visited Sayid and Sayid then beat him up and then somehow arranged for the marshal to arrest him. But that probably doesn't make much sense.
I agree the best line of the night came from Lapidus. It was so funny seeing him on the plane and seeing Jin dressed up in Dharma clothes.
Does Jin someone gets stuck in time and that's why he ends up with Dharma? I'm so confused!
I wonder if those who stayed on the island are in a lengthy time shift and are working for Dharma.
Jin clearly recognized them.
Why is Sayid in custody?
And I have no idea who Ben went to visit? Widmore is a good guess. Didn't he say something about going to visit an old friend?
And what do you think the island still needs from Desmond?
Oops, I meant to say above, does Jin somehow get stuck in time.
Sounds like Jack is supposed to be like Doubting Thomas. In the previews we see Locke alive on the island.
It was a nice touch to have the characters follow Locke's lead and become placeholders for others who weren't. Hurley with the guitar (Charlie), Sayid in custody (Kate), Jack getting drunk (Jack).
An interesting question you have to ask on the island is when are they. The VW bus looked to be in pretty good shape.
I suspect that Ben had something to do with everyone being on the flight. His manipulative abilities are unsurpassed.
I seriously hated the preview. It gave far too much info.
I usually try to avoid it, but this time I saw. I'll have to redouble my efforts.
As I said last week, I think the last shift (when Locke "fixed" the donkey wheel) left the survivors in Dharma time. (I also have a few outside hints that this could be true.) It would explain Jin in the new Dharma bus and Daniel's visit to the Orchid under construction during the premier.
When Hurley refused to say why he was on the flight, I immediately thought one of his dead friends, maybe Charlie, sent him.
In the previews, we see Locke talking to the officer holding Sayid on the plane. Obviously not a coincidence.
What could possibly have prompted Kate to change her mind so quickly and give up Aaron? And with whom did she leave him?
And if the plane didn't crash, how did the Ajira Airlines water bottles end up on the beach in the (likely) future?
So many questions. The hour went so fast, I exclaimed "No!" aloud when it ended on Jin's face. I am loving this season.
I usually don't mind the previews but I have to agree with you about this one, Jeff. I didn't want to know that Locke returns to the island alive.
And was that Ben kneeling before him, which means he must have had something to do with Locke killing himself. And that means he lied (surprise surprise) to Jack about not knowing he'd committed suicide.
Ben's comment about an "old friend" was about his promise to Widmore that he would kill Widmore's daughter because Widmore's henchmen killed his (sort of) daughter. So, yeah, he killed Penny...(an idea reinforced by the boat in the background). I have to say that I was kind of let down by this episode. It seemed almost too thrown together and the whole scenario with Eloise was kind of weak.
NOOOOOOOO!!!!! He can't kill Penny. I will be so pissed. But that is a great theory. Now, if that is true, then maybe that's what forces Desmond to return to the island.
One more thing ... I think Kate left Aaron with Claire's mom. That's my guess.
And, really, where in the hell is Vincent?
He totally killed Penny. He was standing in front of their boat while he was on the phone with Jack.
Just when I start to like that Ben in a weird sort of way, I hate him all over again. He's evil.
Is this not the greatest show in human history? I'm only exaggerating a bit. Really, though, I'm just constantly amazed at how they keep this going, and the depth through which they're exploring basically every religion known to man. (Check out the Lostpedia on the wheel. Everyone's commented here on the religious allegory pretty well. I'd guess the main thing I could add is that they've introduced some great new actors -- guy who bumps into Jack in ticket line, girl with Sayid, another actor I noticed who doesn't come cheap. Other inside joke: Hurley is reading Y:The Last Man, a great graphic novel written by the new head writer on Lost.
Tim! It's great to hear from you. We've missed your insight. That's hilarious about what Hurley was reading. So I guess these new characters will end up the island too. I wonder what role they will play.
What's with Jack wearing a suit to the island? Kate's suggestion of hiking boots was right on. I'd also suggest some medical supplies and sunscreen. But if they were, in fact, "captured" by the flash and pulled from the plane, they would have had to be touching those things.
So, are they going to have to turn the frozen donkey wheel again to start the jumps and stop it when they get to "now?"
I think Ben did go after Penny. Although he's pretty beat up. Maybe she isn't dead.
He's wearing the suit because that's what he was wearing when the plane crashed (when he was returning with his father's body). At least that's how I interrupted it.
good point.
maybe he has other clothes on underneath. :)
Whoa, Frank Lapidus cleans up nice.
If Ben killed Penny, I will never forgive him! No wonder "the island isn't done" with Desmond yet.
I have a feeling Sun did not know they are not supposed to be able to return home. She doesn't know that in order to find Jin alive, she is leaving Ji Yeon forever. I do think Kate knew they would not be returning, and that's why she left Aaron behind, probably entrusting him to Carole Littleton, Claire's mother.
Also, am I imagining it, or is dead John Locke more whiskery now than when we last saw him in his coffin?
21 comments! Hooray. We're finally picking up steam here.
Another blogger I read (see lost and gone forever link on the main page) also thinks Ben went after Penny. I'm hoping his sorry state means Desmond kicked his ass and his mission failed. Though he felt safe enough to stop at the pay phone right by the boat ...
I didn't take the previews as Locke on the island. I was thinking all the events depicted came after his departure and before his "death."
I definitely want to see Lapidus on the island.
Joyce: interesting thought on Locke's beard. Hmmmm.
Couple of notes from the latest Damon & Carlton podcast: The spot where the Montand's arm rips off is an outer perimeter wall near the temple. They describe it as Smokey's Camp David -- not his main residence.
Tonight's episode "316" was originally planned to run
after next week's "Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham." After production, they decided the change made more sense and added some suspense. This is only the second time they've flipped the order of episodes.
Seeing as one of the previous episodes showed items from the Indian plane on the island, I'm assuming it crashes in some way. That means, though, that the people on the island have - at one point - flashed forward beyond the point where Jack et.al come back to the island.
The whole shoes thing, made me think of The Wizzard of Oz. Perhaps they always had the abilty to go back ...
I hardly think Mrs. Hawking is the good witch in this situation. Or the bad witch.
And, Locke's suicide note ... what an ass. You'd think he could come up with something Jack didn't already know.
In addition to the Biblical reference, 316 was also the flight number for the plane that took them back.
So, according to John 3:16, whoever (Jack?) believes in him (Locke?) will have everlasting life.
So, Jack will live forever? And is that forever on the island. Like Richard Alpert?
So did Alpert have to believe in someone and the got everlasting life on the island?
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